Feb 10
So Now What Do You Think?
OK, you’ve seen the Delta Wing concept, as well as designs/descriptions from Dallara, Swift and Lola. Now that you have actual images and descriptions to compare, what do you think?
79 comments79 Comments so far
Feb 10
OK, you’ve seen the Delta Wing concept, as well as designs/descriptions from Dallara, Swift and Lola. Now that you have actual images and descriptions to compare, what do you think?
79 comments
It’s just to big of a step. It leaves out the fan’s that have been active around the 90’s and the reynards and lola’s.
If that would be introduced in 2012 it would be to soon.
The Swift looked best and the second dallara. However the lights on the Swift would make it my preference.
Maybe swift from 2011 to 2014 and at that point deltawing, if the car industry has more resembling shapes out there. Swift would be capable to deliver a year early with their larger production. However do not alianate the current constructors, dallara.
If the current product is not liked by the current fans. Don’t try to do something radical which would leave them out now. The risk to lose everything is just to high. Build on the swift before moving to the delta. Plus have dallara make parts for it all.
So far the Swift designs are the most inspiring to me. The exhibit forward-thinking design while maintaining the heritage and look of the Indy Car designs of decades past.
I’ve never been a fan of the Dallara’s performance or looks, but their “yellow” concept car reminded me a little of the Panoz DP01, a design a very much liked.
The Delta Wing……. I don’t have anything nice to say about that design. It just looks silly.
Sorry The Delta Wing is a Joke. The swift gets my vote.
Right now I like Swift’s 33 and Dallara’s Red (not the maroon car that is an exact copy of their current car). My reason is because those cars can still accomplish 90% of the things Bowlby was looking to accomplish with the DeltaWing (better mileage, lower horespower, lighter cars, improved saftey protecting the front and back of tires), only Swift and Dallara left some room for aesthetics and didn’t sacrifice the entirety of open wheels.
By far the Swift23 and Yellow Dallara are the best concepts. The 23 is familar but modern with a hint to past. The Yellow Dallara is fresh futurist without being Alien. The Bright Red Dallara is sort of evolutionary of the current so a bit conservative. No, NO, and NFW to the Swift33, Dull Red Dallara and Delta Wing. Delta Wing is not recognizable as a openwheel car and really is not. I am pretty sure it would kill the sport. Open wheel fans have been through a lot over last 23 years pushing that monster on us would really just be too much. I am very exited to see the Lola Concepts as they made some good looking cars in the past.
The Delta Wing is a joke. If this is really what the car owners want, then pack your bags. It doesn’t look like a car, and certainly not a openwheel car. I stated before: no futuristic Bat Mobile. Even the current Dallara looks better then the Delta Wing, which is quite an achievement… and sad.
I echo the above comments, for the most part. Love the Swift #33, it would make me a happy fan. I’m also ‘ok’ with the yellow Dallara, but it’s a distant second to the #33.
I was extremely hopeful about, but dislike, the Delta Wing…..to repeat the above poster, too radical. I follow all open wheel, and followed Cart/CC/IRL through all the turmoil, but a design like that just doesn’t appeal. Barring incredible track performance, it would drive me away from the league completely. Probably even from the Indy 500.
I still want to see what Lola has to offer……we’ll see. If anything, it’s giving us all a lot to talk about.
Oh, one last thing. I would desperately like to have Versus back on DirecTV. Thanks!
The delta wing is butt-ugly and it takes away some of the most distinctive elements of Indy cars including the open cockpit and the truly open wheels.
The design concepts of the agenda advanced today are a lot more intruiging to me than the details of this project. I continue to be amazed that no apparent action is being taken to reverse the course of events on the ground. All focus seems to be directed to the outcome of an uncertain future. There will be no benefit gained from today’s reveal.
To be honoust this car scared the living daylights out of me. I don’t even think it’s intreging, intresting or even a concept car from where you can learn for the future.
Personally I miss the feeling what you get when you see a race car whether it’s a rally, a F1, an Indy, a DTM car. With this car no feelings, no adrenaline what starts to flow. To me it does nothing and I don’t know if a car like this will ever make it to the track.
Many of the concepts behind the DeltaWing project sound fantastic. I’d be quite happy with a wingless, ground-effects car at Indy, but I must say this tricycle 1) just doesn’t look like a car 2) just doesn’t look like a racer. My hope is that this is simply an engineering exercise meant to spur some action on behalf of the league and other manufacturers. Bowlby is a brilliant engineer, so the car MUST have some serious merits. …those merits just aren’t in the realm of aesthetics.
So far, Swift is in the lead in my book. All three of the chassis concepts from Swift are nice looking machines, but the real reason why I’m favouring the Swift bid at the moment is because of the additional engineering partners and technology they’re bringing to the party. In their release, Swift did a lot more than simply say, “Here’s a picture of our car. Isn’t it pretty?” They also brought their unfortunately named “Mushroom Buster” tech they’ve used on the Formula Nippon machine to minimize wake turbulence. Their Swiftlights technology has some serious potential for some innovative sponsorship displays.
The logo of the new UGLYCAR SERIES.
http://kephost.com/images/11logo.jpg
The Delta Wing makes me want to retch. What on God’s green earth were they thinking?
Please, please, please go with either the Swift designs or the yellow Dallara. (haven’t seen Lola yet, so I can’t offer an opinion)
I agree with most posts here. Swift Engineering has got my vote so far. Dallara’s new designs are ok, but are too contrived and look too much like the current chassis to get me excited. The concept images revealed by Swift are indicating a new bona-fide, racy aesthetic. Swift is showing a concept that looks like the world beater that has the only realistic chance of succeeding in regaining Indycar’s respectability from American racing fans and from abroad.
Dallara’s design is old-hat. And please, someone tell me that the Delta Wing is just a tongue-in-cheek design exercise. All i can say is that it immediately brought to mind a certain Saturday Night Live cartoon from a few years ago. I will never pay for a ticket to see THAT at Indy.
No matter what, a single spec chassis is FAIL, regardless what it looks like. This isn’t the answer. A noble effort possibly, but I’m afraid its too little, too late.
While I appreciate all the thought and work that went into the Delta Wing concept…WTF!! It looks like it ought to be powered by a rocket engine. If this is the future of professional open wheeled racing in America, I’m done. How about the rule makers define the boundaries and let racers be racers. Delta Wing looks like just another made for tv special effect with little connection to real racing.
I’m trying to be fair, but the Delta Wing is just terrible. It’s not an open wheel car (literally), and I can’t imagine it would corner too well at Long Beach and I doubt it’d do much better at Indy.
Go with one of the three proven chassis makers (Swift in Cali, or Dallara & Lola who are willing to build in Indy). Swift certainly has some new ideas that would help viewership while still being a fast, new-look car.
I agree with most other comments. I completely hate the Delta Wing. I like the technical brief and the idea behind it – less fuel consumption and fast speeds but the car is the most ugly car I have ever seen. We also have to remember that it is going to drive on road and street courses and I cannot see this happening.
The Swift – any of the designs is what the next IndyCar should look like. The Dallara designs are too conservative and look like the current car with a roll bar instead of airbox. No thanks but I’d take it over a Delta Wing.
Ugly beyond belief! But my opinion is irrelevant to you.
Panoz DP01. Half the needed cars are already built and available at reasonable prices. New cars can be built easily. The cars have already been tested on road and oval.
I am aghast at the horrid hot wheels like thing they call Delta. It reminds me of Death Race 2000 or some equally bad B movie. It is vaguely reminiscient of (I think) Mercedes Formula 1 Design exercise from last year that looked like a sail plane. It is so dissapointing. Now there was a cool looking design that HONDA all over it that was shown about 3 months ago that I thought was radical and evolutionary. Its not the HONDA exercise with TARGET logos but another I think was done by an Indiana school…anyway I just hate it. I also depise the current IRL-MoBile but I would take it over this TRIKE! Ughhhhh I wonder if that was the idea all along?
Whoa I just saw the SWIFT less Rad version LOVE IT very nice. I am hopeful that the LOLA concepts are cool as well. I am a LOLA fan and I agree with Martin Barrane that we should have some different looking cars even if they are all SPEC-ed out it would be great to see some different looks.
Did I mention I HATE THAT FREAKIN TRIKE!!!!!!!!
The Delta Wing is horrible looking. I know the owners don’t care about what the people who pay to see them think but I think it’s pretty clear we don’t want that car. I would be REALLY hard pressed to watch the IRL anymore if they go with the Delta Wing design>
I VOTE SWIFT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Delta Wing makes my eyes hurt
The Swift’s design with the exposed engine is AWESOME!!!
sigh…so disgusted. I seriously question the future of IndyCar racing. How can the owners be so out of touch with the fanbase? If DeltaWing is what they think will bring in new fans then there isn’t much hope left.
The Swift car is easily the best new design. Of course we all know it won’t be picked.
The Delta Wing can’t be a serious approach to a racing car, what on earth were the “designers” thinking? If they were thinking it all.
Na na na na na na na na BATMAN!
The Deltawing is the most awe inspiring piece of machinery that humankind has ever placed on a drawing board. This is a Visionary project that only the IRL could afford to undertake and follow through to completion. Just like the IRL took the lead and developed the safer barrier that has been a great technological advancement in driver safety and better understandment umm of the way umm things bounce of walls, this visionary car design will be measure of future car design around the world.
This is what the IRL is all about. Take something that isn’t broke and fixing it beyond repair. That is our heritage and that is what we do best.
Without even seeing it first, I’d take the Lola over the DW. So, removing that monstrosity from the equation, I’d gladly take whichever chassis wins a fair-and-square competition. I do like the SwiftLights idea, though.
The Delta Wing is the worst looking “race car” I’ve ever seen. You don’t have to reinvent the wheel to get fans back to the track again. Just dump the current butt ugle Dallara and go with the DP01 or Lola. Use a small displacement engine and let them go as fast as they can.
What I’m most concerned about after reading all the blogs and listening to part of “Trackside” last night is the “Delta Wing” seems to be a fait accompli, with all the owners drinking the all powerful Ganassi Kool-Aid. If that is indeed the case, why did the league insult Swift, Dallara and Lola by even soliciting designs since they seem to have already decided to let Ganassi have his way?
I sought a revelation on which I could send Brian some more notes.
This is what I found.
I am confused about the Delta Wing.
It has been stated that there is no way we can have multiple constructors (Swift, Lola, Dallara) all make cars because it would be too expensive because they need the economy of scale to lower the costs on building cars. Basically it is cheaper to make 30 cars then 10 cars from Swift, 10 cars from Lola and 10 cars from Dallara.
Delta Wing doesn’t make cars and says anyone can make one. It has also been stated that if Swift, Lola, Dallara or any other person/company wanted to make a Delta Wing they could. This doesn’t make sense. If Swift made 10 Delta Wings and Lola made 10 Delta Wings and Dallara made 10 Delta Wings it would cost them all more money and we would only have 30 Delta Wings running around the track at a higher price point.
I am not drinking the Kool-Ade on this one. If Delta Wing is selected there will be only one constructor building them because, as we have been told, it is too expensive to make just a few cars, they must make the entire field of cars.
The Delta Wing is horrible looking. Its nothing like an Indycar at all. So far I like the Dallara designs the best but I’m excited to see the Lola design too, even the swift isn’t too bad but the Delta Wing is a big no no for me.
I applaud the concept behind the DeltaWing. There’s no question that efficiency will have to be part of the future of motorsports. Let’s take a good, hard look at this idea — and then maybe tweak the form while maintaining most of the function.
I think the Delta Wing concept is fantastic! I actually like the looks of the car. Yes, it challenges peoples idea of what an Indycar is, but so did rear enginened cars, wings, turbines, and many other cars that are now accepted as “Indycars”. The Delta Wing looks fast. What I like most is that form follows function. The Delta Wing looks the way it does for a reason – not to look any certain way, but because that makes it fast, agile, and efficient. This concept allows many people to get involved in manufacturing engines and chassis for indycars – something fans have been wanting to see for years. It places a premium on engineering efficiancy – particularly relating to fuel consuption – somthing that current road car manufacturers are striving for. This concept makes Indycars relevent again. I can imagine any current road car manufacturer advertising that their engine just set the new lap record at Indianapolis, and did it achieving 13 mpg. “If we can average 240 mph at 13 mpg, imagine what we can do in your road cars”. While the Swift and Dallara renderings look better than the current car (particularly the Swift), they are simply an updated version of an irrelevent spec racer.
No thanks, it doesn’t look anything like an Indycar. If you wanted to put it out there against another design maybe but not as a spec car. I like quite a few of the other designs.
Let me say that I love the ideas espoused by Delta Wing, especially the fact that multiple manufacturers could be involved in the project. However, I hate the design… in the worst way.
The Delta Wing is not an IndyCar. It looks like a jet-powered land speed motorcycle. You can tell it was originally going to be a three-wheeled vehicle, until somebody said to Ben Bowlby that it had to have four wheels in order to be a car.
I think if there was a way to use the business plan and platform that Delta Wing has set out with the more conventional designs by Swift, Dallara and Lola that would be the way to go. Unfortunately that does not appear to be the case, so that leaves us with choosing the best of the available designs.
In many ways, the Dallara designs are worse than Delta Wing because they were so conversative, to the point of being really boring. At least Delta Wing put the design effort in to make something completely different. In fact, they even built a show car. I didn’t like the design, but it looks like they put a lot of effort into it. You can not say the same for Dallara.
It makes me think that Dallara feels that they can roll out anything and they’re going to get the business. That the deck is not only stacked in their favor, but the dealer will make certain that they win. If this was Dallara’s best effort that should be an overwhelming black mark against them. I was not impressed at all. In fact I am having difficulty expressing how unimpressed I am with Dallara.
I have no idea what the Lola is going look like, but I have to trust whatever they have come up with will look better than both Delta Wing and Dallara because the bar has been set so low by those two entities. I am concerned that they have not shown a design, which leads me to believe that the IndyCar Series may not end up being a high priority for Lola. I hope I am wrong, but how can I give Lola anything other than an incomplete for not even bothering to share a drawing of what their design will look like. That bothers me so much that it’s hard to even consider Lola a serious player unless they show a design, and show it quick.
Leaving the best for last, the #33 Swift is far and the away the best design out there. It looks fast and modern while harkening back to some cues seen on some of the coolest racers ever seen at the Speedway. Look at the sidepods and you’ll see the Mickey Thompson pancake cars of the early sixties. What a great effort.
To take it a step further, I would put all of the other Swift drawings in front of anything seen from Delta Wing or Dallara by a wide margin… and since Lola apparently doesn’t have a design it would have to go in front of Lola too.
Swift is an American company that has repeatedly proven its ability to provide good, safe and attractive racing cars. It looks like they took painstaking effort to produce designs that will immediately capture of the attention of racing fans. There’s no doubt in my mind that if it comes down to only picking one design Swift gets my vote.
If I had a young daughter, I would not let her watch IndyCar races with that “thing” in them…!
I will say that I am in agreement with many others. The Delta Wing looks like a land speed car, not an Indycar. If I want to watch land speed records, I can go to Bonneville. I also can’t see how this car can turn, unless they use the active differential to steer with the rear wheels, possibly turning the inside front wheel out.
So far my top 5 designs are:
1. Swift 32. It looks close enough to an Indycar while having some development.
2. Dallara #2(Yellow car). Same as the Swift, this car advances Indycar design but still has a familiar look for the fans.
3. Swift 33. If we are not going to stick with a pure open-wheel car, at least this incorporates a lot of racy elements from ALMS sports cars.
4. Dallara #3(Dull red car). Basically for the same reasons as the Swift 33.
5. Swift 23. My only qualms with this car is that it is so similar to a Formula Nippon car. I think Indycars should be distinctive and not identical to cars in other series.
**I reserve the right to change my mind once Lola unveils.**
I am also hopeful that Swift and Dallara are using a common tub for their separate designs. This may allow for the use of these different bodies by different teams, as Lola proposed, so we could at least have some visual differentiation among the teams.
The swift designs are the best so far. Not surprising considering the beautiful work they did on the formula Nippon chassis. The delta wing is ugly is not open wheel and is way to narrow in the front, has no real wing to provide downforce for the front so it will handle like garbage on any road course. Dallara’s designs are not as bad as the delta wing, but no where near as good as Swift. I am looking forward to seeing what Lola will come up with as they have always designed beautiful cars. But for all the secrecy and hubbub the delta wing is sinfully ugly. Just terrible.
To DonMedia,
Credit to you for thinking about the larger implications, as most everyone has been oblivious. It’s pretty hard for me to believe that everyone at IICS was too: perhaps Brian Barnhart alluded to this when he said something like, “We don’t want to get into a group think situation”.
Chip Ganassi’s public speech last month gave me a sense of what was really going on. Then I researched Dan Partel after reading a few weeks ago the he was Delta Wing’s “Managing Director”. At that point, there wasn’t much question.
Go to Delta Wing’s website, and see the building blocks for yourself. If the League insulted anyone, they did so by deflecting the repeated cries for renewal that came from the owners. As a fan, I’d have to agree that the League has been mistaken by their sedentary position in the past. But I have also read that it was the owners who proclaimed, three years ago, that the prospect of replacing their existing equipment was not possible at the time.
So the owners devised a “group think plan” to launch a renewal themselves. Spreading the start-up cost between many owners, and insuring their support, enabled Delta Wing to reach their first goal. Partel’s connection with Firestone even brought them onboard: that’s why they offered the stage for the Delta’s first test. Wednesday was the test marketing of the car and the concept, and the group think plan to redirect IndyCar. Vision, Panther, HVM and others are now taking the reaction poll.
How this got so far away from reality is the surprise. Listening to Ben Bowlby discuss vehicle dynamics on Trackside last night was fascinating for someone like me, who has only a basic grasp on all the concepts he uses every day. Most of these people are very smart men, and I’m sure Mr. Wiggins is as well.
The Delta Wing is designed within a very tight frame of parameters. Ben Bowlby expertly devised ways to solve the objectives. The great innovation was the narrow front track, and the resultant requirement to build what is essentialy a vehicle that you steer through rear wheel torque application.
Wonderful execution of the design exercise that enabled the .24 drag coefficient. It’s a remarkable and efficient motorized vehicle. It’s not an IndyCar.
Drivers have no experience base to draw from when racing a vehicle like this. Fans have no connection with a car that performs in this manner. If manufacturers have an interest, it will be spurred by involvement in engine development programs. That should have been underway four years ago, it was already accomplished in Formula Drift in 2006. Disinterested manufacturers have all proven recently that they are not about to start now.
The price reduction strategy for a less expensive package, from any builder, is somewhat of a side argument. Teams already own cars that they cannot race for lack of operational budget requirements. Reduced expenditures for chassis, engines and spares is not going to halve the cost of IndyCar racing for current and prospective owners. Maybe 25%, but all other operating costs will remain. Hiring at least one engine technician, and expanding fabrication and engineering departments, will bring future cost increases.
The simplicity argument is a questionable one: active traction control is not an unsophisticated system. Nor is active suspension control, which surely must accompany the full ground effect design of the Delta. So kit builders will not have flexibility to modify the strict design parameters, particularly when it comes to track/ wheelbase and bodywork configurations. Those with the greatest R&D budgets will do it best, and regain their insurmountable advantage by the first week they receive their kit.
All of the “green technology” buzzwords attached to this sales campaign are predominantly hollow. Manufacturers know the importance of the fuel mileage battle: their quest for efficiency demands a lot more attention than their interest in racing does. The 10 MPG threshhold for an IndyCar…does that excite you? Are we to marvel at the new efficiency of teams that need $4M to run 17 races, now that their fuel costs have gone down? That’s a lot of green.
Not the first time a miscalculation has been made: Honda executed a complete engine revision to enable the switch to the “green technology” of ethanol. Nodody cared.
So a lot of words have been spoken, most behind closed doors as always. And the words I use to theorize about these events don’t mean much. Nor do the ones I have written about how I would have done things much differently.
What happens now? Those are the only words that matter. As we wait, we watch facts on the ground deteriorate with no apparent collective intervention. I see no convincing argument that half the teams will be around in two years to buy a turn key racecar at half the cost. Regardless of who builds it.
There are two American drivers with confirmed full time rides in the 2010 Izod IndyCar Series. One of them is positioned to leave for a huge step forward, at the end of this season or sooner. Others who have been selected by Izod as their public representatives might not even be in competition at some or all of the events.
Mr. Wiggins, I’d appreciate a response to this letter. I will apologize if my position strikes you as confrontational, as that is not my intent. Hell, I used to work on Can Am cars too. Not as an engineer, but as one who shares the same guiding motivations: I hate to be wrong. And that any day will be a wasted one, if I do not learn something from it.
I’d like to know if there is word behind closed doors about Mr. Ecclestone’s stated desire to block FIA sanctioning for the Brazil race. I’d like to know how many transporters will be loading in 9 days for the open photo session and closed testing at Barber. I’d like to know who is monitoring and shaping these events, with the owners so steadfastly devoted towards 2012… and the new CEO 17 days from taking office. His first priority will be getting up to speed, and 235 MPH will most certainly be the required velocity.
Mr. Wiggins, thank you again for providing this channel. Whether it brings some benefit to Delta Wing, their owners, IICS, HVM Racing, or any concerned party does not matter. I just hope it makes a difference in any way at all.
Andy Bernstein
I absolutely HATE the Delta Wing. It’s ridiculous and is not an open wheel car. Every other formula series in the world can manage to build a decent looking open wheel car (F1, F2, GP2, GP3, F3, WSR, IFM, A1GP, Atlantics, Star Mazda, etc.). The Delta Wing does not even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Dallara.
The Delta Wing is horrible, and if the car owners don’t like that then they car race out of their pocket. The fans should direct where the league goes with the new car because they are the eyeballs that pay the league, drivers, owners, and manufactures. The fans obviously don’t like the Delta Wing despite how the car owners seem to feel so trash it. Fans have taken favorite to Swift so far and that should be the leader of the pack. If the IRL takes the Delta Wing for the next model, I’m no longer a fan.
I urge IndyCar fans that hate Delta Wing to FLOOD the corporate IndyCar office with emails, phone calls and personal letters sent to Brian Barnhart and Randy Bernard at the below address.
Indy Racing League
4565 W. 16th Street
Indianapolis, IN 46222
317-492-6526
Because the amount of money invested by the IndyCar team owners in Delta THING, they are not going to accept any design concept proposed other than their own. They MUST understand that we refuse to watch something this hideous, and another Open Wheel war will lead to the end of the sport once and for all.
I can guarantee that if Delta THING is selected that thousands of fans will give up on Indy Car because we refuse to watch something as hideous as that abomination. If Delta THING is selected, I will NEVER watch or attend an Indy Car race again. I’ll have to force myself to become an F1 fan.
What are the owners thinking (including HVM)? Have you lost your marbles?
Keith –
You stated during your interview on Trackside that you would take into consideration what the fans think of Delta THING. The vast majority of the fans hate it! I hate it with so much passion that I will never watch or attend another Indy Car race if this is selected as the new formula.
The performance and efficiency goals of the concept are noble, but the car is the ugliest THING ever conceived. It has NOTHING to do with the history of Open Wheel (CART, Champ Car or Indy Car) in North America. It looks more like something that should be on the Bonneville Slat Flats, definitely not on a road course. You may gain some new fans who think this ugly thing is “rad” (14 and 15 year old boys), but lose the majority of your long term fan base that has supported Champ Car and Indy Car through thick and thin.
This is a MAJOR MISTAKE by the owners and can only lead to another Open Wheel war that will kill the sport once and for all.
If the league runs the Delta Wing, I’m no longer a fan.
Mr. Wiggins,
I urge you to listen to the people who got you here… THE FANS!!!
The Delta Wing exercise is barely within consideration where esthetics are a concern, and NO, we will not “warm up to it” with exposure any more than those of us who got to know the DP-01 have to the Dallara lawn-dart!
The answer is quite simple to me (although I’m not in that “end” of the automotive business); There is an existing chassis that has had the necessary testing and improvements sitting in mothballs. The company that produced it would have been foolish to destroy all the molds for the autoclave (even though it teeters on insolvency), and still has a list of qualified employees available who could undertake (re)building a fleet of SERIOUS race cars…
OH YEAH; I forgot to mention that one of the other team owners now has rights to all parts and spares for said cars (or at least rumor has it that this is the case)…
How many factors in a particular project’s favor do you need in order to look favorably upon it.
The fans have told you what they like… the same level that ChampCar fans brought through the gate at events a few years ago.
Thanks,
manic
The DeltaWing is a joke. Most important of all, it sends the wrong message: that IRL is a standardized dinky toy series, not “real” motorsports.
I firmly believe the standardized chassis formula should be approached as a temporary solution, a basis for future regulations that will allow for teams to build/buy their own cars, if and when that becomes economically viable again. So the standard IRL car should at least be somewhat realistic, the kind of car a competitor would build if restricted to certain regulations, not some kind of fantasy batmobile.
A standardized car is a clear sign this series is still on life support. A standardized car that doesn’t even resemble what a competitive indycar would look like would signal the end of any serious open wheel racing in the US.
What’s more frightening than the hideous and repulsive looks of Delta THING, is what will happen after IndyCar picks a proper concept for the new formula (Swift hopefully), and the owners continue to push this monstrosity because of the money invested.
I urge all IndyCar fans that hate Delta Wing to FLOOD the corporate IndyCar office with emails, phone calls and personal letters to let them know how you feel.
Brian Barnhart, COO
Randy Bernard, CEO
Indy Racing League
4565 W. 16th Street
Indianapolis, IN 46222
317-492-6526
I urge all IndyCar fans that hate Delta Wing to flood HVM Racing’s blog What Should the Next-Generation Open-Wheel Race Car Look Like? at http://www.hvm-racing.com , and flood Delta Wing Racing’s contact page at http://deltawingracing.com/feedback/
Let them know how much the fans HATE this THING, and that we will not let IndyCar be turned into a laughing stock racing league. If the owners continue to push forward this concept, the war to end all Open Wheel wars will begin.
I’m still trying to figure out whether the owners are actually serious about the THING, or is it some expensive joke? Hell, you want a cheap car to race, why not just race Atlantic or Mazda Star cars? At least they look good (and are CHEAP).
I will never spend another penny on Indy Car if Frankenstein is selected as the new car.
Delta THINGS performance, efficiency and cost goals are great, but do it with a proper looking race car. The owners are making a huge mistake if this THING isn’t redesigned to look better. Ditch the stupid airplane tail and push the front wheels wider, that would be a good start. But just how much can one polish a turd?
No matter how cheap the car will be to build, I fear that this will kill Open Wheel once and for all. No one wants to watch this monster. I (and thousands of other fans) refuse watch the IZOD Penis Racing League, or the IZOD Frankenstein Racing League.
I’m all for the owners coming up with a design that meets your cost and performance goals, but how about making it look like an Indy Car while your at it?
I’m all in for Delta Wing. Bring back innovation, relevance, etc! It may not be a prettier mousetrap, but it is a BETTER mousetrap. And, the looks are even growing on me. It takes some getting use to. It makes people stop and look and think. They may even hate it at first, but they’ll remember it. It takes some getting use to, but the concept is fantastic! On the unofficial IndyCar poll, it is even out polling the Dallara concepts!
Being 23 years old, I am part of the 18-35 demographic the league is looking to please and pull into the sport as fans. Well I am already a fan and I am not pleased with this at all. I thought of two things when I saw this car, first being the Ace & Gary SNL cartoons from back in the day and the second was that it strongly resembled my CO2 dragster that I built out of a block of wood and a Dremel for a 12th grade physics project. Granted the Delta wing is far more sophisticated, I never thought of my project as resembling an Indycar.
Delta Wing might be cheap and easy to produce, but it is not open wheel. I don’t care if its “technically” an open wheel car because 5 inches of wheel is exposed. I agree with the others that fear this will ruin the sport for good. I’ve read comments here and there that say things along the lines of people having the same reaction to moving the engines to the back of the car, as most are having to the Delta Wing. That might be a semi-valid argument, but when you line up all the cars throughout the years, you can see a clear evolution. I’m all for change, but not something so drastic. I want to see new technologies, and better racing, but I want to see something I enjoy looking at. American open wheel racing is in a pretty fragile state, I don’t think something so radical is the smartest of ideas.
I love Indycar, but I honestly don’t think I would watch it if Delta Wing was chosen. I actively try to get my friends to watch Indycar racing, and I’ve succeeded a little, but I don’t think I could convince someone to watch 33 of the Ambiguously Gay Duo’s car race in the Indy 500. I wouldn’t even be able to take myself seriously. My biggest fear is that Indycar will pick the Delta Wing and alienate the loyal fans they currently have.
With that being said I love Swift’s ideas. For a couple reasons. I think they are fantastic looking cars. Swift definitely knows how to merge beautiful aesthetics with function. I also like Lola’s ideas. They know how to build race cars, thats no secret. And I would be fine if either Swift or Lola were chosen, but where Swift wins my vote is that they are an actual American company. I don’t really care if foreign companies are willing to build their cars in Indiana. Thats a nice gesture and all seeing as how thats where “Indy” is based. But I don’t live in Indiana, so it doesn’t affect me. I do, however, care that it is an American company, building a car SOMEWHERE in America. And isn’t that a better PR move for the league as well?
I really hope that the league pays attention to the opinions in this blog as well as the opinions that are elsewhere on the internet. I can only hope that the fan is looked after a little more this time around.
Keith –
Here is the new name for the league. IZOD presents Wacky Races in the Weirdo World Of Wheels. I have attached the new Indy Car logo.
PLEASE, for the love of God, select any Swift proposal! Trash this stupid idea.
http://www.hvmracing.com/hvmblog/wp-content/upload/Pic.bmp
This should be a very exciting time, looking at new designs and the future formula for IndyCar. But rather than being excited about a radical new design, I’m really depressed thinking about the political ramifications ahead because of the owners position with Delta THING.
Are the owners going to dictate to the league that it’s this hideous concept or no racing? If IndyCar goes along with your demands, will there be any fans left to watch and pay for the THING? I for one will not spend my hard earned money to watch this monstrosity, and it appears thousands of other fans feel the same way.
Team Owners: Please don’t destroy IndyCar! Come back to your senses.
The hicks over at NASCRAP must be laughing their asses off! And licking their chops that the OWNERS are going to destroy what’s left of IndyCar.
What a sad, sad development Delta THING is.
My mom always said if you can’t say anything nice don’t say anything at all, and i can’t say anything nice about the Delta Wing. I hope INDYCAR listens to it’s fans, we are united for maybe the first ever in our hatred of this car. Make it go away please. The Lola looks most like what i expect out of an Indycar but the Swift has it’s merits too. Either of these would preferable tothe Delta Wing which will kill the sport and make us a laughing stock.
I have attached a picture of Delta THING out on the track.
A futuristic, multiple seat Delta THING.
However this deal shakes out, please accept my best wishes to HVM Racing for a successful 2010 and a great future.
Words cannot express how furious I am! Tony George and the split couldn’t kill Open Wheel, but the owners backing Delta Wing are going to kill it off themselves once and for all with this stupid THING! What are you thinking!!! Have you lost your minds?
Please, no Wacky Races! Don’t destroy IndyCar.
I was really excited about selecting a new chassis, now I just feel ill. I’m very concerned the owners will make an ultimatum to IndyCar that it’s this piece of crap or no racing. If that’s the case, RIP IndyCar.
Please don’t destroy 100 years of history and the identity of IndyCar. Please come to your senses!
Hi Keith:
I will be not hear in Brazil next march/14. However I wish to your team great performance in the race (perhaps a great victory). Say Helo to Myriam.
Byby
Piti
Here’s hoping for some track temperature on Wednesday, and an HVM Dallara there to help add to it.
As for my continuing test of the “open source” Delta initiative, and the free exchange of information that concept implies:
Since the Delta Wing chassis is obviously a full ground effect design, will it not require active suspension control to avoid tunnel evacuation in pitch incidents? Hopping the turtles with a rear wheel, as in the case at the end of the Mid-Ohio sim, will significantly disrupt downforce generation.
If active suspension technology is a component of the design concepts, will the cost and complexity of this system be approved by the sanctioning body?
Thanks and best wishes,
Andy Bernstein
‘Sucks’ is not too strong a word for this concept. If I want to see f-16 racing, I’ll just wait for a local war. Good try, and will be topical when we are all driving George Jetson’s car…but not now.
Oh wait – I forgot to mention:
You shouldn’t care about my opinion because I gave up on indycar a while back. Didn’t give up on CART – but the whole shebang has very little bang – and where do I go to see Indycar? Versus? Not on DirecTV, nor on network TV – naaaah, I’ll suffer the F1 charade/circus – it has better cars… and Speed coverage.
Ever been to a bar with Versus?
Delta Wing is the most god awful car I’ve seen in my lifetime. I can’t imagine looking at one of these things – let alone 33 of them. Turn it over to the car owners and let them race what they want. Give them a small set of rules and let them go from there. Spec is not good for the sport IMHO.
I haven’t seen this much opposition to a new product since the ipod. The technical crown panned that as ‘a waste of time’ see: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23/1816257
I think a majority of the fanatics had their hopes and aspirations built up with the delta wing only for them to be dashed by the unexpected and new concept. The vitriolic comments show the grief from a passionate crowd. I think that the delta wing will be a fantastic success. It is the only design that could bring in huge crowds to the Indianapolis 500 with the expectations of a new lap record.
If the delta wing can bring out the passion as seen here to the fanatical few, then what impact could it have on the greater population? I would like to find out.
James
I’ve slept on it for a while, and here’s my thinking: Any one of the Swift concepts would be first choice for me, and the Lolas second. Dallara third, but only the most-evolved concept. Just can’t imagine wanting to watch the Bonneville Salt Flats 500, and really don’t want to see that configuration of the Delta Wing in my favorite series. I love the open source concept – let’s use that approach on a chassis that looks something like an Indy Car! After all, it IS the identity of the sport that’s at stake.
Kudos to all four outfits for providing much food for thought, and thank you, HVM, for giving us a place to voice those thoughts!
Hey Chip, here’s the new car! Wow Ben, it’s right out of 1957. That’s our car of the future. Everyone will LOVE it!
IndyCar team owners show the new Delta Wing design to their friends at NASCAR. Bill France is heard saying, “Dang, that durn thang would look good on a trophy wouldn’t it?” Another NASCAR official asks if they could “install an airplane tail and tail fins on the new NASCAR Car Of Tomorrow.” Bill responds, “I think that would be just too futuristic for the 1950’s!”
Chip thought for a while and said, “Ben, I don’t think everyone loves it yet. We’ve heard a small amount of negative feedback. Make the front end and wheels more narrow and we’ve got a real winner on our hands! While you’re at it, remove the canopy. It probably won’t be looked at as an Open Wheel car if it has a canopy”
I personally think that the Lola concept should be chosen. It shows a true open-wheel racing car design, and they promise to make them in Indianapolis.
http://www.lolacars.com/newsstory.asp?NewsId=190
Delta Wing, and it’s not even close. Picking the new Dallara or Lola or whatever won’t even register a blip on the media’s radar, and the IRL will continue on in obscurity. For every internet poster who claims they’ll never watch IndyCars again, I would reckon 10 new fans would tune in just to see this wild new efficient rocket-looking racecar. I like the idea of multiple manufacturers, which is only apparently available through the Delta Wing project. I like the idea of going the same speed or faster with less horsepower and less fuel. I like the idea of a clean sheet of paper and form following function.
In short, I am a long-time IndyCar fan, have been to 27 Indy 500’s, and I like the Delta Wing.
I would have to rate in the order of Swift, Lola, Dallara, and Delta. I can see the policing of the Delta being extremely difficult for a “spec” car, if that is in fact what we’re stuck with. Nothing sexy about it. Swift & Lola are a nice progression without going F1-over-the-top aero. I like the reduced HP if speed is maintained, but drivers need to have to lift on a 1.5 mile oval. I would like to see a KERS-like application for “boost”, but you have to slow down or brake. Make the driver drive, not just hold on!
I love the Swift #32. It looks wicked fast. I find the Swift #33 too cartoonish, the other fall significantly further down my list. The Delta Wing – I just can see it as a race car, I’m an engineer and appreciate the obvious efficiencies in its design but, it does not look like its ready to do battle. FWIW – my 12 year old son ranks DeltaWing first and Swift #32 second amoung all the chassis
The Delta Wing is a horrific idea for open wheel racing, and probably for anything. I DON’T CARE how good the smokescreen science is behind it: it’s an abomination and it will drive off the vast majority of the very small audience who cares about open wheel racing.
As I’ve said bluntly in other discussions, IndyCar already has the market on a formula that looks like sh*t. The fact that some group of IndyCar owners now want something that actually makes the Dallara look good is frightening beyond belief.